In Jack Ryan: Shadow Recruit, Kevin Costner plays high-ranking CIA operative Thomas Harper, the handler responsible for recruiting and looking after young agent-to-be Jack Ryan (Chris Pine). The role marks the start of a busy year or so for Costner, who'll soon be appearing in 3 Days To Kill, Draft Day, Black And White and McFarland.

For an actor whose pace has slowed in recent years, it marks a fresh period of work, and we're hoping it'll build to another directorial gig for Costner, who hasn't been behind the camera since 2003's acclaimed Open Range.

Costner talks a little bit about his directing plans in the round-table interview below, which took place while Jack Ryan: Shadow Recruit was still filming last year. The talented actor and director reminisces about his missed opportunity to play both Jack Ryan and Superman in the late 80s and early 90s, and the pressures of being a leading man.

On his character, Commander Thomas Harper

I don’t think my character is a mentor, exactly. He recruits people. It’s safe to say he’s recruited more people than Jack Ryan during his career. There’s a management that goes with these assets that you place around the world. Jack starts off as a person that doesn’t have a gun in his hand. He has the capability and I’ve kind of assessed all these things, like he’s got a military background, but he’s a financial guy.

He’s got the classic leading man build but he doesn’t start off that way. So “mentor” isn’t the right word, necessarily. It’s not like I’m telling him how I do things. Jack Ryan is a resourceful guy. I manage him, like I’ve managed a lot of people. “Asset” is such an impersonal way to talk about people, but it’s how they talk. I’ve fallen into it already!

On the creation of the CIA

I think [the CIA system] was originally conceived out of WWII. Roosevelt understood very early that one thing we lacked was [that kind of intelligence operation]. We didn’t know anything about anything. He went to a guy he knew in college, and he went off and recruited Bill Donovan, and he was a guy that could parachute into Paris with a girl on his arm. He was almost a Bond type of personality, but his concept was that he went after very innocuous people like accountants, to get into the inside of the workings…

The CIA can’t operate in a dumb way. They have to operate in a smart way in terms of how they recruit, and they understand that you have to work into the fabric of these societies. Nothing stands out more than a Jack Ryan, a kind of anglo guy hanging out in Russia. You get people in on the inside, like ship-builders and accountants. If you saw how the CIA worked, the logic would be perfect to you. It’s not really brain surgery. It’s like, how do you get information?

I like to think that some guys were born for management and some guys fall into it. I don’t think my character was born for management, so I think he can’t help himself sometimes from getting involved with people under his stewardship. It’s like you don’t know how good somebody’s going to be until you see them. There’s a line in the screenplay where somebody says, “You’re not just an analyst anymore; you’re operational now and you basically have to have a gun”. The temperature grows in this film. 

On working with Kenneth Branagh

Working with Ken [Branagh] was a strong appeal for me because we’re contemporaries and we both jumped out of acting into directing. And we both certainly had a thousand people tell us what they thought was wrong with us! We risked stepping outside our boxes. Nobody has ever been able to keep Ken in his box, so I’ve admired him from a distance since early in our careers. He talked to me about doing a movie that Andy Garcia ended up doing [Dead Again] that I just didn’t feel was right for me, but we had a healthy respect for each other.

I could fit this part. It wasn’t a giant stretch for me to play this, so it was really Ken. I thought he could do something really special with this.

I don’t know what will come from this. I think you make one movie at a time. People nowadays want things to have an extended life, but if we don’t keep our eye on this ball… You can’t just force a franchise – although it’s tried sometimes! I think this one has to stand alone. When Ken asked me to come to it… It’s not that I owed him anything, but if I could help him with this movie, I loved the idea of that. Only he had it in his mind how I might be able to do that. 

On working with Chris Pine, and his role as Jack Ryan

I’ve been where Chris [Pine] is at. I guess my version of this film would be No Way Out or something, on some level. I think he has a very good handle on it, and our dynamic from a script standpoint is that I’m in the position of handling him, and obligated to get him out of a situation if I’ve gotten him in. Our dynamic is a nice one. He controls himself really well on set. He knows what he’s doing. He understands this kind of “leading man” responsibility. He’s 6 ft and he’s white and there’s this certain kind of thing that you have to do.

It’s a kind of thing you learn how to do without doing lisps and accents and limps. You can’t get away with all the tricks you get to play as a character actor. Sometimes as a leading man what makes you almost boring is that you’ve got to stand there and take people through the movie. You don’t get to do what all the people who play the bad guy or the eccentric get to do. It’s hard sometimes, because you go, “Am I doing enough here?” It’s not an easy thing, which is why there aren’t a lot of guys who can fill those shoes. People think it’s easy to be Spencer Tracy. Oh, really?

It’s not wall-to-wall action. It’s a young man and a woman and he’s kept a secret from her and now she’s involved in it… There are some movies that are wall-to-wall action and others that depend more on how their story unfolds. It all comes down to story. Some are more dialogue heavy than others.

How Costner narrowly missed out on being Jack Ryan himself

I was asked to be in the first one [The Hunt For Red October]! People fell in love with these books. Their whole summers are spent reading them. People like to travel with their stories: they like a certain style. There’ll never, ever be another Bond situation: that is what it is, and it’s such a great thing and it gave birth to all these other things.

I would have done Red October. I wanted to do it, but I had postponed Dances With Wolves for a year and I was suddenly going to make it, and I really couldn’t do anything else. They offered me more money than I had ever seen, and I think they though I was just stubborn. But I wasn’t! “No” didn’t mean “More money!”, it meant that I couldn’t do it. I had given my word on Dances With Wolves.

Everyone wondered what the hell it was. It was called so many names! This little Indian movie. It got called Kevin’s Gate. I didn’t know what everyone’s problem was! I would have loved to have done Red October but it just wasn’t going to happen. I’d given my word to be somewhere else.

I like directing. I haven’t done a lot of it. I’ve only directed three movies, but I’d like to do more, and I think I will as my career plays out. I’m stubborn enough to not do it unless I think I’m going to be able to influence every bit of it. I’m not a big committee guy. I’m developing four or five movies that I’d like to direct at the moment. I have three little kids under five, so I haven’t worked that much in the last few years. I’m doing back-to-back movies this year, which I’ve only done once before. 

I did Field Of Dreams and Revenge back-to-back, with two days between them. If you look at my career, and whoever you’d consider my contemporaries, like Bruce or Mel or Richard, I’ve probably done about a third of the movies that they’ve done, because sometimes I just go home and go build a road or something! But I would like to direct more, and this last four years I’ve written a lot, and acquired certain things. But I won’t just go out and make them for somebody else. I want to own them. We own it if they do well, and if they don’t do well we own that too. Let’s make sure they are what they are, the length that they are. I love subplot. Sometimes subplots get cut out for conventional reasons of running time. I’m kind of like, where’s everybody going? If it makes it six minutes longer, let’s keep it that. I’ve never learned, that’s for sure!

On his all-American public persona, and almost playing Superman

No one ever mistakes me for anything other than American. I make American stories, and hopefully they travel internationally. But I make cowboy movies, so I get that [I’m seen as an American everyman]. The funny thing for me, which highlights the idea of a career, is that maybe there’s a moment early in my career when I could have played Superman. I don’t know whether I could have gotten the curl right! But time tells you when you can play his father, and those things are changing for you.

I don’t think of it that way, but I think I don’t run away from our history, the good or the bad of it. I think… I’m not Superman’s biological father obviously, but I like to think I gave him the DNA for his character and how he behaves as a person. I haven’t ever tried to do that [represent a wholesome value system] purposefully. People just see you in a certain light.

I did A Perfect World and Mr Brooks – a killer and a serial killer – but even those characters I try to make certain that you understand who they are as people. I would not have done Mr Brooks, just because a serial killer is a despicable thing, but I thought I could bring a personality to it. Now with Dexter they’ve made a series out of it. There has to be a level of understanding. You don’t have to make a serial killer a good guy, but if you can understand him, I think you’ve done your job.

On the possibility of appearing in a Jack Ryan sequel

I don’t really think of this as a series. I don’t really covet other people’s parts. I certainly haven’t approached this one as part of a series. I know what I’m supposed to do with this movie. This movie has its own kind of life, and if they want to bring my character back it’s going to have to be interesting, and really step up. I’ve been asked to do a second Bull Durham and a second Bodyguard. I’ve been asked to make another version of almost every movie I’ve ever made! So I see this as just one movie, a Kenneth Branagh film, and I loved that he wanted me to be in it.

I’m not carrying this film: Chris is the one that has to do the running and jumping and saving the girl. We all want to do that as kids, right? We all want to be heroic. Gary Cooper had a great quote, and I said this to Chris: when he was asked what he looked for in scripts, he said “days off”. I thought that was a really good line. I remember Jo-Beth Williams saying she wished she’d realised she’d actually be shooting in that muddy pool for days. So when I read a script now I go, “Hmmm… Waterworld… I’m probably going to be in the water a lot…”

I don’t know that I was ever as cold in a movie as I was on Waterworld. You wouldn’t think that, because it’s Hawaii and beautiful. All I’ll say is, the next time you get wet, stand in front of a fan! The wind blows in Hawaii constantly, and I’d be wet, and they’d be throwing buckets of water over me… It’s crazy stuff like that that nobody warns you about!

Kevin Costner, thank you very much.

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This interview contains a spoiler for a costume that Ricky Gervais wears in Muppets Most Wanted. Not a massive spoiler, but thought you'd want to know

It's March 2013, and we're having a pinch-yourself day. For we're on the set of Muppets Most Wanted (still simply known as Muppets II at this point), and have seen things that would have our younger selves pinching ourselves. We'll have, as a result, a lot more on the film for you in the weeks ahead.

Our starting point though is when we're bundled into a room with a bunch of other wide-eyed visitors from around Europe. Turns out the room belongs to one of the stars of the film, Ricky Gervais. And turns out too that he's wearing a lima costume, for some reason. On then with the interview...

Can we start we how you got involved? There was said to be a cameo in the first one, that ultimately never got to the screen, and then it's led to a lead role this time?

I remember where I was. I was in Scandanavia. I was doing a little arena tour, and I got a call from my US agent saying that they want you to be the lead in the next Muppet movie. And I said no at first, because I just couldn't do it. They said that they were filming in January, February, March [2013] and I'd just finished a show called Derek. I was worried about doing press for that, and I was about to start directing Life's Too Short. And they said we can make this work, we can make this work.

So I haven't had a day off since Christmas! [this interview took place in March 2013]. I went from finishing Derek, doing this mini-tour... but I'm so glad.

I was also worried about letting people down. That I wouldn't do Derek justice, I wouldn't do Life's Too Short justice. I thought I'd be doing three things half-heartedly, as opposed to one at a time. But I read the script and I loved it, which isn't a surprise, because I love the Muppets.

They've been really accommodating. They even created a hiatus in the middle of filming for me to do Life's Too Short. They've been incredible. And I'm so glad I did it. I kick myself sometimes thinking that I nearly turned it down, which would have been one of the biggest regrets of my life. Because every day is funny.

I have loved the Muppets for about 35 years. I used to watch them every Sunday, and I've got older brothers and sisters, and even when I was young, I saw them laughing at what I thought was a kid's show. So I thought there's something about this, there's something else about this kid's show. And then I saw John Cleese do one, and he's still doing his thing, and I thought this is cool. This isn't a kid's show.

This film in particular, the comedy is certainly on two levels, as they say. There's something in it for... well, I don't know what an adult means really. I've never grown up. Particularly men - men never grow up! I'm laughing all the time on set, I'm just talking to a frog!

If someone said what's your best day, I'd say spending time with the talking frog.

So what's with the lima costume you're wearing?

I can explain it, yes, as opposed to it being my weird foible! 'I'm doing the film, but dressed as a lima! That or no deal!'

This is a costume for the film, yes, and not my own. I'm a master criminal, and the lima. That's all I can tell you. It's actually quite comfortable - it's like a babygrow, a onesie. This suits me. I'm having a great time. The guys are funny. The operators - they're actors and comedians, great puppeteers, but sometimes I just don't look at them. Even in breaks, I see the frog slumped, and I'm like 'make the frog talk, I want a chat'.

I love animals. They're probably my first love anyway. And the personification of animals, it should almost be illegal. It's too instantly funny, it's too good. I do a lot of it in my stand-up. My first stand-up was called Animals. There, I act out animals arguing, and I think there's something very, very precious about them anyway. So when you can make one talk, I'm a sucker for it.

Having said that, it's a great film as well. This is not a silly little knockabout thing with a tie-in. It's a big Hollywood movie. You've seen the sets, the amount of production that goes into it. One of my favourite films of all time - not just my favourite family film, or kid's film - is The Muppet Christmas Carol. I watch it every year. It's already one of the greatest stories ever told, given that it's Charles Dickens' A Christmas Carol. And the only way you could improve that is to put Muppets in it. And they did!

Basically, I'm in my element!

How's the singing and dancing?

There are little bits. There's one big number between me and Constantine. We do a proper Hollywood song and dance number, going out onto fire escapes and tap dancing and stuff. I'm okay at singing! I'm a pretty good singer actually, as a failed pop star! That doesn't phase me. Dancing?! [Sighs] That sends a chill down my spine. I don't know if you've seen The Office, where David Brent dances: that's the peak of my powers. That's as good as it can be.

Luckily in this, it's written that it's meant to be awkward, and that I don't like it! They make me dance, which is perfect, because I can play awkward when I'm really feeling awkward really easily. But I think I got away with it. It's meant to be fun. It's a joke as well. But I've never done anything like this really!

If you could perhaps talk about that first moment of meeting a Muppet for the first time, as a fan?

Well, the first Muppet I met was Elmo actually. Not part of this gang! But I did Sesame Street a few years ago, and I've cited that as the highlight of my career. And I've worked with Bowie and De Niro! I've won Golden Globes, I've done The Simpsons... but I couldn't take my eyes off him. Again, there were no humans around - this guy was a living, breathing little red furry thing. He made me laugh, the fact that he answered back... I treated him like he was an animal who could talk, and I've never lost the magic of that. I don't see them when they're slumped. It's like I can't see them unless they're on a hand, talking!

I think that's the important thing about creativity. People have got to be willing to suspect their disbelief. Particularly in comedy, and particularly for kid's as well. To remember how nice it was to be fooled. I get that every single day. So to answer your question: I was blown away, and the novelty hasn't worn off.

On the part of The Muppets team, they improvise quite a lot and really enjoy it. Have you found a lot of improvisation on this set?

Yeah. I have. You have to hit the marks, because it's a juggernaut of a thing, and you can't go off road too much. You can't really do it physically either, because they're so restricted in their tramlines - that's what they can do. So you do it with little, more verbal things.

For example, there's one scene where I come in and say 'what's the matter, you only ever knit when you're nervous'. And I found this the funniest thing, that there's a frog knitting. So we started improvising. I asked him 'is that a present for someone?', and he goes 'maybe'. I just smirked to myself as if the frog is knitting me a scarf!

It's collaborative, but as I say, it's such a big budget thing, and it takes so long. You can't just say pop over there - you have to take a bit of floor up and work out how to do it. Everything's problem solving: every day there's hours of problem solving. If you are going to ad lib, it has to be within those tramlines, which is very different from what I do. With things like The Office and Derek, of an eight hour day, seven hours of it is acting. Whereas here, one hour is acting, and it's seven hours of 'how do we do that?'. It's a very different process.

I think it's about the Muppets. There's no room for ego if you're in a Muppet movie! Obviously. I couldn't be a diva anyway. One, I'm dressed as a lima. And two, I can't help but smile when there's a fucking talking frog!

Have you heard that Walter does an impression of you yet?

Yeah. He's just a little... a bit too goody-goody, Walter. And he hasn't got a nose!

Can you tell us about the scenes you shot in Ireland? What happened when you all turned up there?

That was funny. I don't want to diss anyone, but I had a similar experience. I did Alias, with Jennifer Garner. And there, it was meant to be Ireland, and there were a lot of flat caps. I said to them you might as well bring a horse in the pub if this is what you think Ireland is like! It's a bit like that - 1960s Ireland. Everything's a bit heightened. It looks amazing, looks beautiful, but it's fairytale Ireland.

Where do you get your comedy inspiration?

I've no idea, I've no idea. I like realism, I like human behaviour. I've done surreal stuff, and deconstructed nature a lot with Flanimals. But animal comedy, to a certain extent, is undermining a societal norm. But I think my best results come with real life, real people, the minutiae of human behaviour. The excruciating social faux pas.

I think that's more universal, and it gives you a scope for drama as well. It's about what's inside, rather than what's happening around you. Everything I've done has come from character first. David Brent. Then I had to think about what would be the best place for him: an office. Derek. What would be the best place for him: an old people's home, because it's all about kindness, and the forgotten.

You have to have a reason to do something, and it has to have a voice. And that comes from character. Then you build everything around it. I think if plot comes first, or if high concept comes first, it can be great, but it's harder. I think if people feel it viscerally, almost subconsciously.... I think comedy's about empathy.

I'd say my inspiration is probably empathy with people. With everyone. And this will sound like I'm doing a song for the United Nations, but everyone's the same really. The circumstances don't really matter, the themes I pick on... People thought The Office was really quintessentially English, but it wasn't. The themes were about making a difference, a romantic comedy, and it was about not wasting your life. That's the same for everyone, it doesn't matter where you are. And I think that's what I mean. Emotions are universal. Circumstances change.

Does this humanitariasm extend into the film? Do you all get redeemed?

Do I get redeemed? I don't think I do, except I was never in charge. I was always number two. So I'm like a pawn in the game. But it's funny you should pick on redemption: it's probably my favourite theme in everything I've done. David Brent, you sort of forgave him because you realised his life hadn't turned out as he thought. For all his sort of prattishness, he needed a hug. That's funny you should pick on that. But it's a cartoon world, so as long as our villains get their comeuppance at the end...!

It's not that manipulative. It's not aimed at six year olds. It's difficult to explain, but it's sort of more grown up than you'd imagine. It's on two levels. It's sort of like The Simpsons. I can't understand how The Simpsons is for kids. I don't know what's in it for kids. A bald man hitting his head? For me, The Muppets seem more grown up. Maybe I'm just a kid!

And with that, time is called. Ricky Gervais, thank you very much...

Muppets Most Wanted is released in the UK on March 28th.

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The live action take on Akira may have fallen by the wayside, but Hollywood has still been looking at Manga to give a live action big budget movie adaptation to. And it's settled on the long-mooted remake of Ghost In The Shell.

DreamWorks has been developing the project, and it has a screenplay in place from William Wheeler. And now it has a director too: Snow White And The Huntsman's Rupert Sanders has reportedly signed up to direct the film.

Sanders has been linked to a few different movies, and while he's definitely on-board this one, it doesn't necessarily mean that Ghost In The Shell will shoot next. We can't imagine that DreamWorks will be keen to hang around too long, however.

More on the Ghost in the Shell movie as we hear it...

Deadline.

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